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	<title>Comments on: God&#8217;s Sovereignty- Man&#8217;s Responsibility;  A Subject That Everyone Should Be Familiar With</title>
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	<link>http://jordansjournal.net/2009/02/02/divine-election-or-human-responsibility/</link>
	<description>Clear and concise answers all in one place</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 15:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://jordansjournal.net/2009/02/02/divine-election-or-human-responsibility/comment-page-1/#comment-1050</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2011 06:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree with this analysis.  I don't agree with everything Geisler communicates and you're right, he's not a strict Calvinist.  He has sought to emphasize man's responsibility within God's sovereignty by presenting a biblical emphasis from man's side of the equation- exercising our means of grace within God's sovereignty.  This can be helpful for those who are not as theologically astute as yourself.  Once one really gets into God's sovereignty in the life of the believer, especially, it becomes a tremendous comfort.  However, that can take some years of study before being able to reconcile it.  For the new believer, or for someone who has been perverted by "hyper calvinism" or a lightning bolt experience theology, it is also helpful in bringing a different side to the equation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with this analysis.  I don&#8217;t agree with everything Geisler communicates and you&#8217;re right, he&#8217;s not a strict Calvinist.  He has sought to emphasize man&#8217;s responsibility within God&#8217;s sovereignty by presenting a biblical emphasis from man&#8217;s side of the equation- exercising our means of grace within God&#8217;s sovereignty.  This can be helpful for those who are not as theologically astute as yourself.  Once one really gets into God&#8217;s sovereignty in the life of the believer, especially, it becomes a tremendous comfort.  However, that can take some years of study before being able to reconcile it.  For the new believer, or for someone who has been perverted by &#8220;hyper calvinism&#8221; or a lightning bolt experience theology, it is also helpful in bringing a different side to the equation.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://jordansjournal.net/2009/02/02/divine-election-or-human-responsibility/comment-page-1/#comment-1049</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 May 2011 05:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jordansjournal.net/?p=20#comment-1049</guid>
		<description>Re: limited atonement

If the sins of the whole world were atoned for---then God's wrath would be satisfied against the whole world and He wouldn't send anyone to hell.
MacArthur has a good message on this doctrine--here: 
http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/90-277_The-Doctrine-of-Actual-Atonement-Part-1?q=atonement

In terms of 'calling', I've heard it explained (by John MacArthur) in terms of a general vs. effectual calling&lt;-those who are chosen/elect are called, justified, saved, glorified...Romans 8:30. Obviously this is just the elect. This effectual calling results in salvation and is a call that can't be resisted. I Peter 2:9.
http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/90-296_The-Doctrine-of-Gods-Effectual-Call?q=effectual+calling

Then there is a general calling...

I've also heard atonement explained in this way: Christ has atoned (held back God's wrath) for the sins of nonbelievers temporarily and for believers permanently. 

Justice would be that we all be punished for our sin with instant death. But Christ's death has allowed nonbelievers to experience His grace (referred to as common grace), in that they are allowed to live, enjoy this life--have families, experience good things, etc. But when they die they will experience His wrath.  For the saved, our sins have been atoned for permanently--in that we have received His saving grace-- that will save us from His wrath now and in eternity.

Not sure I explained that very well....but that's the gist of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: limited atonement</p>
<p>If the sins of the whole world were atoned for&#8212;then God&#8217;s wrath would be satisfied against the whole world and He wouldn&#8217;t send anyone to hell.<br />
MacArthur has a good message on this doctrine&#8211;here:<br />
<a href="http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/90-277_The-Doctrine-of-Actual-Atonement-Part-1?q=atonement" rel="nofollow">http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/90-277_The-Doctrine-of-Actual-Atonement-Part-1?q=atonement</a></p>
<p>In terms of &#8216;calling&#8217;, I&#8217;ve heard it explained (by John MacArthur) in terms of a general vs. effectual calling&lt;-those who are chosen/elect are called, justified, saved, glorified&#8230;Romans 8:30. Obviously this is just the elect. This effectual calling results in salvation and is a call that can&#8217;t be resisted. I Peter 2:9.<br />
<a href="http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/90-296_The-Doctrine-of-Gods-Effectual-Call?q=effectual+calling" rel="nofollow">http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/90-296_The-Doctrine-of-Gods-Effectual-Call?q=effectual+calling</a></p>
<p>Then there is a general calling&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also heard atonement explained in this way: Christ has atoned (held back God&#8217;s wrath) for the sins of nonbelievers temporarily and for believers permanently. </p>
<p>Justice would be that we all be punished for our sin with instant death. But Christ&#8217;s death has allowed nonbelievers to experience His grace (referred to as common grace), in that they are allowed to live, enjoy this life&#8211;have families, experience good things, etc. But when they die they will experience His wrath.  For the saved, our sins have been atoned for permanently&#8211;in that we have received His saving grace&#8211; that will save us from His wrath now and in eternity.</p>
<p>Not sure I explained that very well&#8230;.but that&#8217;s the gist of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://jordansjournal.net/2009/02/02/divine-election-or-human-responsibility/comment-page-1/#comment-1048</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 May 2011 04:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jordansjournal.net/?p=20#comment-1048</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the great read! :) )

Re: Norm Geisler... his theology is not completely biblical .. he is not really a calvinist. Dr. James R. White addresses this briefly here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSA34eSC_GI

A good example of total depravity is Lazarus. He was dead without the ability to respond.  He had no life in him. He couldn't hear, sit up, or respond. He could not exercise his will in any way.
This is the way unregenerate man is. He is dead, blind, in bondage to sin, incapable of seeking after God. Ephesians 2:1-5. Romans 3. Jeremiah 17:9. The heart=intellect, emotions, will. 

He cannot do good - Matt 7:17-18, Romans 8:7-8
He cannot understand the good. I co 1:18. Matt 13:14
He cannot desire the good.. John 6:44, Matt 7:18, John 15:4-5

The only way we could hear Jesus calling us when we were unregenerate is that he made us alive first. Jesus resurrected Lazarus first and then he could respond. Same with us...we were all born into sin=rebellion vs. God. He had to regenerate our hearts first, and ONLY then could we respond with our wills.

So I would disagree with Geisler that it's a combination of the work of  our will and our Holy Spirit. (Which makes him a synergist not a monergist.) Because unregenerate men's wills are naturally in rebellion to God--unable to cooperate with the Holy Spirit. Our salvation is entirely the Holy Spirit's work---He conquers our rebellious wills-- regenerates our hearts, and makes us willing to believe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the great read! <img src='http://jordansjournal.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
<p>Re: Norm Geisler&#8230; his theology is not completely biblical .. he is not really a calvinist. Dr. James R. White addresses this briefly here: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSA34eSC_GI" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSA34eSC_GI</a></p>
<p>A good example of total depravity is Lazarus. He was dead without the ability to respond.  He had no life in him. He couldn&#8217;t hear, sit up, or respond. He could not exercise his will in any way.<br />
This is the way unregenerate man is. He is dead, blind, in bondage to sin, incapable of seeking after God. Ephesians 2:1-5. Romans 3. Jeremiah 17:9. The heart=intellect, emotions, will. </p>
<p>He cannot do good - Matt 7:17-18, Romans 8:7-8<br />
He cannot understand the good. I co 1:18. Matt 13:14<br />
He cannot desire the good.. John 6:44, Matt 7:18, John 15:4-5</p>
<p>The only way we could hear Jesus calling us when we were unregenerate is that he made us alive first. Jesus resurrected Lazarus first and then he could respond. Same with us&#8230;we were all born into sin=rebellion vs. God. He had to regenerate our hearts first, and ONLY then could we respond with our wills.</p>
<p>So I would disagree with Geisler that it&#8217;s a combination of the work of  our will and our Holy Spirit. (Which makes him a synergist not a monergist.) Because unregenerate men&#8217;s wills are naturally in rebellion to God&#8211;unable to cooperate with the Holy Spirit. Our salvation is entirely the Holy Spirit&#8217;s work&#8212;He conquers our rebellious wills&#8211; regenerates our hearts, and makes us willing to believe.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://jordansjournal.net/2009/02/02/divine-election-or-human-responsibility/comment-page-1/#comment-823</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Apr 2011 06:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jordansjournal.net/?p=20#comment-823</guid>
		<description>Glad you received benefit from it, Theresa.  May the Lord be glorified in it; it's all of Him and for His glory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad you received benefit from it, Theresa.  May the Lord be glorified in it; it&#8217;s all of Him and for His glory.</p>
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		<title>By: Theresa Bredenhof</title>
		<link>http://jordansjournal.net/2009/02/02/divine-election-or-human-responsibility/comment-page-1/#comment-819</link>
		<dc:creator>Theresa Bredenhof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Apr 2011 00:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jordansjournal.net/?p=20#comment-819</guid>
		<description>Wow. That was incredible. Good insight and interpretation of scripture. Powerful. I liked how much of His word you used. Good job!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. That was incredible. Good insight and interpretation of scripture. Powerful. I liked how much of His word you used. Good job!</p>
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